Summary
Highlights
Megan Kelly sets up the debate between Bill Ayers and Dinesh D'Souza on whether America is a force for good or bad. Ayers argues America plays both good and bad roles, highlighting the tradition of dissent and revolutionary spirit from figures like Harriet Tubman and John Brown, who pushed for change outside the law.
Ayers distinguishes between presidents who act within the law and movements like the Civil Rights Movement, which often broke laws to achieve justice. D'Souza counters by comparing Ayers's past actions to those of terrorists, arguing that legitimate protest, like Martin Luther King Jr.'s, involved accepting legal consequences, unlike Ayers's group.
D'Souza criticizes the 'spirit of 1968' for reinterpreting American history as a series of crimes. Ayers defends this reinterpretation, stating that America did commit genocide against Native Americans and enslaved people, and that confronting these truths is necessary for repair. D'Souza disputes the 'genocide' claim regarding Native Americans, attributing population decline primarily to disease.
Ayers states he is not proud to be American due to the damage the U.S. causes globally, citing America's imperialistic actions and foreign policy. D'Souza defends American exceptionalism, arguing that the U.S. uses its power more benignly than other nations would and that American wealth creation ideas are embraced worldwide.
Ayers challenges the idea of benign U.S. power, referencing interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan as examples of failed and self-serving foreign policy. He argues that the U.S. often blames its clients for its failures and that its vast military budget and global bases serve imperialistic, not benevolent, purposes.